The Black Donnellys, Brenda Ganske, Horrifying History Podcast

This episode has it all! Several weeks back we put out a call for spooky stories on Twitter. The response was incredible!! This is one of the Halloween season episodes that resulted. Brenda Ganske has crafted a truly horrifying history that has everything, horse hauntings, successful squatters, angry town's people, murders, and much more. Sit back fellow Armchair Historians and buckle up while the host of the Horrifying History podcast enchants you with the true story of the Black Donnellys.

Brenda Ganske is the creator and host of the podcast Horrifying History which she released in October of 2019, and History Coles Notes which was released exclusively on the Horrifying History YouTube Channel in July of 2021. Brenda is a spookstorian who loves everything to do with history and the supernatural.  She was born and raised in Alberta, Canada with the dream of becoming a detective, but ultimately decided to work in healthcare.  She has worked in frontline healthcare and later moved into healthcare analysis, which is why today she is able to tell stories that you likely never heard before. 

In her free time, Brenda loves spending time with her partner and her beloved dog Gizmo who acts as her very lazy co-host.  She loves being outdoors and researching the spooky stories that she brings to her audience each week.  You can find Horrifying History at either www.horrifyinghistory.podbean.com or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. You can also find it along with History Coles Notes on the Horrifying History channel on YouTube.

Resources

Horrifying History website: https://horrifyinghistory.podbean.com

Twitter: @HorrifyingHist1

Instagram: @horrifying_history

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/horrifyinghistory

HH episodes mentioned: From Russia with Love
The Power of Voodoo
Who Do Some Voodoo
Horrifying History Coles Notes, Who Really Discovered America?

Support Armchair Historians:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/armchairhistorians

Transcript

Anne Marie Cannon: 0:00

Hello, my name is Anne Marie Cannon and I'm the host of armchair historians. What's your favorite history? Each episode begins with this one question. Our guests come from all walks of life. YouTube celebrities, comedians, historians, even neighbors from the small mountain community that I live in people who love history and get really excited about a particular time, place or person from our distance or not so distant past. The jumping off point is a place where they became curious that entered the rabbit hole into discovery. Fueled by an unrelenting need to know more, we look at history through the filter of other people's eyes. armchair historians is a Belgian rabbit production. Stay up to date with us through Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Wherever you listen to your podcast that is where you'll find us. I'm chair historians as an independent, commercial free podcast. If you'd like to support the show and keep it ad free, you can buy us a cup of coffee through cofee or you can become a patron through Patreon links to both in the Episode Notes. Hello fellow armchair historians. I just want to say that this episode has it off. Several weeks back we put out a call for spooky stories on Twitter. The response was incredible. This is one of the Halloween season episodes that resulted host of horrifying history podcast Brenda Gan ski has crafted a truly horrifying history. True Crime tale. Now this true crime history has everything including course hauntings, successful squatters, angry townspeople, murders, and much more. Sit back fellow armchair historians and buckle up while the host of horrifying history podcast and chance you with the true story of the black Donnelly's. Friendly damskie. Welcome and thank you for being here today.

Brenda Ganske: 2:05

Thanks for having us.

Anne Marie Cannon: 2:07

I'm so excited because this is one of the histories I did not. I was almost tempted today to look up. I have no idea about it. So um, tell me a story. What's your favorite history that we're going to be talking about today?

Brenda Ganske: 2:22

Well, on our show, we tell a lot of HAUNTED STORIES like haunted places, or we do talk about historical true crime. But there's always just been one story that always is fair, or like just sits in the front for me always has, and it's the story of the black Donnelly's. There's a couple reasons behind that, to be honest with you. Firstly, I think it's because when people hear of Canada, they just think we're all nice and polite and say sorry, a lot. And as much as is a stereotype is true. And I'm sorry for saying it couldn't resist. It's not always that way. And there is a lot of bad stuff that happens up here. And historically, there has been a lot of really rough stuff. And this story specifically, it's been very popular and canadiana. It's so severe, it is part of our heritage. But also, it's a story that if you go in anywhere in the country, it's highly likely somebody heard about it. And that's why I think I enjoy it so much is because there's always a great tales about haunted places, but also looking into them. A lot of them are actually exaggerated through the years. And there are exaggerated PR a lot of different reasons like sometimes it's to bring tourists in. Sometimes it's just to further demonize what actually happened. But in the in the story, the black Donnelly's, none of this applies. So I'm just gonna get my disclaimer. The tale I'm going to tell you is actually exactly how it happened. It's not exaggerated.

Anne Marie Cannon: 3:53

I'm so excited. I do want to tell you that my ancestors came over to Canada and we're in Ontario, and then they came down to the United States. So I feel like this. These are my people. Where Where do you know where abouts? They went in Ontario. Oh, yeah. Woodstock. You're actually close. Okay, in St. catharines. Yep.

Brenda Ganske: 4:17

So basically, your ancestors were in near that area at that time. Oh, yes. Yay. They weren't involved. But, but hopefully it's and the reason I'm saying that is because I'm going to give my disclaimer of it actually is a case of extreme hatred. And it's targeted against one specific family. And it just shows corruption at the highest levels. And it really shows about how anger can over flow, and they can create a whole community that just had a taste for blood. Can I get a more of a disclaimer in there for you for your

Anne Marie Cannon: 4:52

listeners? It's rough. I think we're gonna love it. We're gonna put our seatbelts on and go put your

Brenda Ganske: 4:59

seatbelt on because We're about to go. So the tale that I'm going to tell today actually starts back in Ireland. And it starts with a young couple who fell in love. And their names were James and Joanna Donnelly. And they were married very shortly after their courtship in their homeland in about 18 1840. So they had their first son who they named john Jr. and they the two, the three together immigrated over to Canada. Now, after they settled, they actually had more children and seven more to be exact. And they wanted to settle down onto a homestead, they decided to go to an area call, it's a township a bit off, and it's near London, Ontario, which is actually right near to St. catharines, where your ancestors were from. And like many communities that was in Ontario during the 19th century, this community was dealing with constant crime, and the crime ranged anything from robbery to assault to murder. Now, also during that time, bringing anybody to justice was not easy. And there was a couple different reasons behind that, because the majority of the console hospitals were not trained at all, they were often the criminals themselves. So that makes it a little more difficult to get a lawless land to be following the law. Also, for various different reasons, the courts at that time actually weren't handing out a punishment what people think were reasonable either. So all that in combination, put it like the wild wild west out there. So after they moved to the area, the Donnelly's decided to settle on a land that did not belong to James legally, they became squatters. Now, this land was actually owned by a company called the Canada company, and they leased it to a man named James grace. It's unsure if James ever knew if the land was owned by anybody. And honestly, squatting at that time was a common frontier practice. And it was supported by the courts under common law, property rights. So what he wasn't doing anything illegal at the time. So in 1856, a man named Patrick ferrill bought the land from James grace. So when Patrick immigrated from Ireland to go take his property into possession, he was really shocked to see the only family living there. So he got really mad, he went to court, and in 1857, he tried to get the Donnelly's evicted from that property. Well, the disputants actually then agreed in court to allow James to keep them reside on 50 acres of land, which actually was way less than what the DOD least cleared over the 10 years, they occupied it. Now, even though there was agreement, and it was all legal and made in court. Pharaoh would often call that whenever you would see one of the Donnelly's in public, he would just start vocally attacking him. And on June 27 1857, farol, actually attacked Don Lee at a public event. So he threw a hand spike at him. So I apparently these things just lie all over the ground. So James actually then grabbed another hand spike in self defense and threw it at him and he actually killed feral. So when that happened, the first thing James did was he went and hid for the next two years before he went and turned himself into trial. Now James was sentenced to be hanged for his crime in 1859. Because again, back then the self defense thing was not really thought about. So he was actually determined to go and hang but his wife Joanna actually submitted a petition for clemency. So what happened is James had his sentence reduced to seven years in Kingston penitentiary in Kingston, Ontario. So that penitentiary is actually now a museum in itself. And it basically to give your listeners an idea. It's kind of like the Alcatraz of Canada not a nice place. Really pretty rough. Seven years is a lot. So Meanwhile, in 1873, the Donley skate stagecoach line was started by William Donnelly, who was James's son, and it was a major success. So William, he managed a company with his brothers Michael, john and Thomas and the company rivaled the official stagecoach line at that time, which was in place in eight since 1838. So the competition felt a pressure and they sold their company to a man named Patrick Flanagan, and he was determined to just drive the darlings out of business. So this now set a stage for the feud between the Donley stagecoach line, and the Flanagan and Crawley stagecoach line, and they started destroying each other's property, they would burn it down, the horses were beaten or killed. If you name it, they were doing it so but here's the thing, both were doing it. But the community blamed all the dire the violence on the Donnelly's, because they were saying, oh, they're just troublemakers, and this just ruined their reputation even further. So as the tension was building towards the family, they just started getting charged with many things including assault, robbery, arson, trespassing, verbal assault that attempted murder, assaulting a police officer, but the Donnelly's always went to court and they were always find found not guilty in a court of law and this just really peeved off The community even more and make them really start to hate the family. So then in June of 1879, this is where things start going drastically downhill. So a man named father john Conley, he created what he called the peace society in the county, before he started preaching to his parish about the activity that was occurring and his thoughts on who was responsible, which is pretty irresponsible of him to do but a bay listened, he started asking everybody to pledge support by having their home searched for stolen property. Now out of this group, another group started and it was called the vigilante community community, our committee and they formed and evidence shows that the members of the vigilance community, and also this peace formation from the from the pastor, actually were the ones that were responsible for all the crimes. So but the Donnelly's thought at the time, what they were doing was smart, they decided not to sign that pledge, because they thought that the community would use this as an opportunity, just as hide stolen property on their property and set them up. Now to make things even worse. James Don Lee kind of stirred the pot here a bit. He stood up in church to denounce the priest himself who started to preach hatred against the Protestants in this area. Now, the thing is, many of the Donnelly's friends were Protestant. So he was just standing up for his people, his friends, right. And also the other big foe Paul that he did is he donated money to the building of an Anglican Anglican Church, which his friends were of that faith. And this completely outraged society, like how dare you support somebody else? This just proves what we're thinking all along. So this anger boiled over on February 3 1880. And what happened was, this is the date that the peace society decided to take action. So the original plan, okay, so you feel free to laugh about this original plan. It's so ridiculous. You will laugh even though it's a little inappropriate, but I laugh too. So what they said is they were going to go into the family home, the Donnelly family home at late at night, when everyone's asleep. They would handcuff the male members of the family, they would dry them out and hang them up by a tree by the neck until they confess to all the crimes, but this was only going to hurt them to scare them a little bit. Firstly, how are you going to confess if you're hanging by a rope by your neck, and secondly, oh, that's only to hurt them, really. So this was their grand plan. So to help with this, the peace societies decided to set up patrols to survey the property to figure out when they're going to be home and not and how to get onto that property though being protected by anybody. So on February 2, James and his son went to town to go pick up a boy named Johnny O'Connor, he was a relative. Now Johnny was going to stay overnight, and then he was going to the next day look after the farm when the families go into court for the last round of charges that were put against them. So at about 1am on February 3, the peace society decided to get together and they started drinking to gain their liquid courage before they mounted their attack. When they got empowered with enough liquor, they walked over to the Donnelly home and surrounded the perimeter of the property. Now a constable of the area his name was James Carroll. He entered the unlocked home he handcuffed Joanna and James's son Tom, who was asleep. So after he handcuffed him, he woke him up and said he was under arrest which woke up Joanna and her niece Bridget who was visiting from Ireland. Now the commotion also woke up john who asked constable Carol, what are the charges, and then Tom asked for the constable to read the arrest warrant. And since this was just a big farce, the constable gave the signal to the prison or the peace society who was outside to to start to swarm the house with their clubs. So at this point, all the peace society broke into the house and started beating up john, Joanna and Tom. Now Bridget was able to escape so she ran upstairs to hide. Now Johnny also hid he actually was hiding under john Donnelly's bed, but since then men didn't actually know he was on the property. They didn't go looking for him. So john was hit repeatedly in the skull until he died. Joanna she actually fought really hard against her attackers, but she was beaten and killed by the constable himself. Now Tom was able to break free from his attackers and he started running towards the front door to escape. But as he was running, he was stabbed multiple times with a pitchfork. When he fell onto the ground. Several men carried his body into the kitchen where his parents bodies were placed, and they decided to remove his handcuffs. Now after this, just to make sure Tom was dead, they just hit him in the head several more times just to make sure they were good. Then the men went upstairs, they found Bridget who was hiding and they beat her to death. So they carried her body downstairs and they put her with the rest of the family. Meanwhile, when all this is going on, one of the men decided to kill and decapitate the family dog because the dog started to bark. So it was at this point of their murder spree that the group realized They're missing john Jr. and they decided just on the fly, let's just create a brand new plan to read that community of the entire Donnelly family, let's just take them all out. So what they did is they lit the house on fire with the bodies inside. And they went hunting for john Jr. After they left Johnny, who was under the bed was able to escape that burning home and start looking for help. So at about 2am the piece of software is he gonna find help from while exactly the point because the whole community is kind of in on it, right? So at this point, it's 2am, the peace society arrives on place called Wayland corners. And that is where john jr lived, so they surrounded his house. At this time they decided to try to get will Donley who also lived with his brother to come out of the house. So instead of storming the home, they decided to beat wills prized horse to try to lure him out of the house. But the problem was the barn was too far away for anyone to hear anything. So spoiler alert for everybody, the horse lips, okay. Probably one of the only ones that live Yeah, but the horse, thank goodness. So one of the men started yelling for will to come outside while he was carrying a shotgun to the side of the house will woke up hearing somebody calling him but it was actually john Jr. That went to the door. He received gunshots to his chest in his groin, and it caused damage to his chest, his lungs, his collarbone and his ribs. He fell to the ground where they shot him seven more times, just to make sure. And they also said it was punishment for what he did. So the thing is, will dawn Lee's wife, Nora, she heard all this she was in the house. She tried her best to try to pull john away to safety, but she could move the body on her own. Meanwhile, will was hiding in a bedroom, but he was able to peek out the window to see who was attacking his home. And interestingly enough, one of the men he saw was Nora's own brother, huh? Yeah. Not good. So at this point, the peace society said they're getting a little tired from all the murdering and the beating and stuff. So they just said let's just survey the perimeter for a while they'll come outside. So they waited about three more hours. They're sobering up, they're getting tired. So they like okay, we're done. We're going to leave the property now. So the next day, Johnny will and his wife Nora reported the attack of the to the murders to the local magistrate, even though report say 35 men participated in these murders. It was only constable peril, and five other additional men from the peace society that were arrested. So that six people out of 35 they went to trial. And at the trial, you have one guest to find out who was one of the key witnesses. Who do you think the brother Johnny, the guy under the bed?

Anne Marie Cannon: 17:48

All right, okay. He was make sense witnesses. Okay, right.

Brenda Ganske: 17:51

So he witnessed the entire massacre that happened at the house before it burned, right? So these vigilantes did everything they could to prevent him from testifying, including burning down his parents house, and threatening to kill the family. So Meanwhile, William Donnelly, he also testified, and he suffered the same sort of retaliation. Now, the defense witnesses in the trial were all friends and family of the vigilante community, and they backed the alibis of every single person on trial. So due to this, the first trial went to a hung jury, with one juror actually publicly saying he would not convict even if he witnessed these murders himself, that will tell you how badly and how biased this community was. So during the second trial, the judge gave instructions to the jury that you can't listen to Johnny's testimony. Why? Well, Johnny's mother decided she wanted to get paid for his testimony. So now they took out Johnny's testimony. So now constable Carroll and the five men were determined to be not guilty. And when they publicly announced it, the community had a party and it lasted a full day and night. Unbelievable, isn't it? Unbelievable. But that as I was mentioning before, the black dawn Lee's story is a well known piece of canadiana. But interestingly, a lot of the inhabitants of the township through the years tried to suppress this subject for obvious reasons. their ancestors were the murderers. Right, right. In the recent years, several businesses started up centered around this tragedy, multiple songs and books were released about this. And in 2007, NBC actually released a TV series called the Black Donnelly's that was based on this story. And in 2017, another short story was released about the events are a short film sorry, you actually though if you guys want to go see it, you can take a tour of that Don Lee homestead, which many people report supernatural events take place on their tours, which why would MIT right with all of that trauma. So when I say happens at the farm is that items go missing regularly, and they're later found in unexplainable. Places door slammed themselves. People hear footsteps from unseen sources and they report being touched by unseen hands. Now, individuals also claimed to hear voices talking in the middle of the night. And they hear screams coming from the barn. They also claim that they feel like they're being watched by unseen eyes at that bar. So why do you think the barn?

Anne Marie Cannon: 20:24

The horse?

Brenda Ganske: 20:26

No, but you you're kind of close the house burnt down, remember? Yeah. So they rebuilt that house, while his original structure to survey time. Right I,

Anne Marie Cannon: 20:39

I do ghost tours here in Georgetown, Colorado. And that's one of the things that I say is that paranormal activity is attracted to what is physical and what is familiar.

Brenda Ganske: 20:52

Exactly. And that barn is original data time. Now, the interestingly too, it's not just the barn that is a hotspot. There has been so many reports of shadow people and ghostly figures throughout this entire property. It got so bad that the family who purchased the property after the deaths, called the local priests to do last rites and bless the property. So even so it's still said that the activity is still very extreme To this day, and it's one of the most haunted sites in Canada. Now in did in addition to all this, the road where the vigilantes walked, his opponent supposedly haunted now, it said that horses, which you brought up earlier, horses will not go down that road during the night of February 3, and if they do, the horse will die soon afterwards. Also, it said that horses will not walk on the Donnelly property at all. And in case you thought, No, there's not enough ghost stories here. People report seeing headless horses galloping throughout this township and live horses throughout the township supposedly go berserk on a regular basis for reasons that they have no idea why. My thought is, maybe this is just revenge against the peace society beating wills prize worse.

Anne Marie Cannon: 22:04

Yeah. I hope it is. It's crazy,

Brenda Ganske: 22:09

isn't it? And this happened in Canada. Well,

Anne Marie Cannon: 22:12

well told. Well told. I have to say you told that story very, very well. Well, it's a new rabbit hole for me. Thank you very much.

Brenda Ganske: 22:25

You You're dying to see if your relatives were there. Darren?

Anne Marie Cannon: 22:29

I wish I could find out what they thought about it like,

Brenda Ganske: 22:32

oh, it would have been

Anne Marie Cannon: 22:34

in the news when they were there definitely would have been, I would imagine so well. I wonder how it was depicted in the news was it depict in other places

Brenda Ganske: 22:43

in the area? Well, that the thing is, that's how they developed the terminology being called the Black Donnelly's for years as a way to kind of enable that behavior. And that they got away with it. They push the narrative that the Donnelly's were just evil human beings that they deserve what they got. But as the years went by, and historian started taking a look, they realize now, not so much. It's a story of people not liking each other people behaving badly, and that accelerating to a point that encompasses an entire community. Right? And I'm not saying the dominants were innocent, they definitely weren't. But were they guilty of everything? Absolutely not. Nobody deserves to be killed in that way. And no, burning a stage coaches really is worth that retaliation.

Anne Marie Cannon: 23:34

No, definitely not. Since 2016, I was wishing that my ancestors would have stayed in Canada. Because Because of similar, you know, behavior and ideology, and but it's, it's human nature at its worst, and still is present in the world today. So absolutely.

Brenda Ganske: 23:58

And And the thing is, and that's why I love telling the story is, again, the reputation of Canada is that you're all nice, and you say thank you and please and open doors. And no, not everyone is like that. And it doesn't matter where you live, there is always something that needs to change. No matter where you're at. There is always bigotry. There's always racism. And it's our responsibility to tell stories like this to indicate that these things happen because they still happen today in different ways. And if you don't talk about it, it will happen again.

Anne Marie Cannon: 24:32

Yeah. Well said Well said. So is that what your fascination with horrifying history is? Is it to tell the story so that we learn from history or is there a darker part of you? First of all, tell us what your podcast is.

Brenda Ganske: 24:51

Well, horrifying history how I came up with the idea of it three years ago, I never even listened to a podcast ever. And my girlfriend announced on Sunday media that her and her brother were starting a true crime based paranormal, True Crime based podcast, I got to support my girl. So I'm listening to the show. And I really absolutely fell in love with podcasting, because it reminds me of way back when when there was only terrestrial radio, it's so controlled, and you can't say a lot. And then they invented satellite radio. And then with that became st came so much freedom. And I see podcast is an extension of that. So much. So I actually am on a radio show in Georgia, the last Wednesday of every month, so tomorrow, and that is what talking to the station manager, he's saying the evolution is that terrestrial radio is becoming more talk radio, because that is if you want to download a song, you can just go onto iTunes and download it. Right? So and that is what I'm loving is podcasting is now influencing terrestrial radio to evolve it to be something similar. And I love the fact that I can listen to whatever I want. But with that said, I started looking for exactly what I wanted. And I couldn't find it. The thing is, when it comes to horror genre, it's always seems to be a lot the same. You tell spooky stories or, or personal experiences, which I like, if there's a reason why it works. But then you look at True Crime genre. And it is always the same formula, which again, because it works and it has to be person does a crime. They they we talk about that you catch the bad guy and all is good in the world, or it's a call for action because you don't find that guy. And and we have to help solve the crime. But I thought, why don't we mixing the two? We really need to take a more an investigative look at a lot of the events that happen that are supposedly paranormal. And well, we just take a look at it and tell them see what the history tells us. Let's see what the facts and the documentation shows us. And let's do a study of this. Can it happen. And that is as soon as I thought of that. That's where horrifying history just poof in my head. And I'm like, I totally can't do this. There's no way because honestly, I was moving from Western Canada to Eastern Canada. I didn't have time. But as I'm driving the seven days across Canada, all I'm thinking in my head is logos show ideas. And I'm like, Oh no, this is not good. So it's actually a couple months after I arrived here that I started developing horrifying history.

Anne Marie Cannon: 27:25

I love it. I listened to your latest episode. From Russia with love. It is truly horrifying. So what is your format?

Brenda Ganske: 27:36

Well, my format changes and people say how do you get your show ideas. And we're at a point with our podcast we got we got some great fans. And they sent us some great ideas. But I love to tell not just one story I like to look at like say a topic idea. Like for example, I have a show coming up tomorrow call R which I'm pretty sure anybody in the spooky world has heard about who put Bella in the witch Elm. And I heard that story. And I'm, I loved doing the deep dive into it of what the options all could have been, and how that could have happened. So they'll find For example, I started an episode and it was actually about Voodoo. And I was planning to tell a lot of Voodoo lore. But when I started investigating it, it really just went south on me and I did change right in the middle. And I decided to make the episode on how Voodoo religion was again used against the practitioners to make them look a certain way to make oppression easier and more accepted. They try to make it into something bad to make these guys look like havens and murderers when they were not. And so that's why it's kind of hard to say because sometimes, for example, I'll talk about witches. And I'll be planning to tell a story. One story no doesn't happen.

Anne Marie Cannon: 28:57

It has a mind of its own the store just it just does its own thing. Well, I think that's the best way to honor the stories let it tell itself. I like that. What is the one message that you want my listeners to get out of this story.

Brenda Ganske: 29:14

Hate never gets you anywhere. When my nephew was about nine a situation happened and a lie came out. And he was really confused on the situation. And so I actually sat him down and I said, You know what, when it comes to lying people lie for two reasons to protect themselves or to get ahead, right? And I said, That's why your uncle and I are really not happy if you Why? Because the reality of it is people will find out. It's gonna happen eventually. And when they find out they're going to know you as a liar. Or worse. Right? I said and you're a good kid. I don't want that for you. So that's why you need to tell the truth because someday somehow that true Get out and your reputation will be destroyed. And in this story, I find that if that resonates too, because people in the community did what they best could for years to try to hide this to make their situation look better, and but it came out, and it always will come out, right. So I think that's the best thing is history. A lot of people want to change history or put a better spin on it. That's the difference between fact and history. History is somebody's opinion. More than anything, it's a state. Yeah, it's enhanced. It's biased. It's very important. And that's what I try to put forward in my podcast is don't just look at the tail and believe it don't believe that internet meme, dive deeper. Look at sources learn the truth, because the truth is what's important, and that is the tale that we need to tell to honor the victims, or honor or honor what actually happened. And honestly, I hope we try to do it very well in our podcasts. But I hope

Anne Marie Cannon: 31:01

Yeah, I think that's it that's, you know, look at and I think, currently there is a movement to look at the history and retell it and acknowledge some of that, which I tried to do in my podcast acknowledge some of the erased or the hidden histories. And I, I'm really impressed. I'm a fan, I'm gonna subscribe to the podcast. And I'm gonna, it's, I'm glad because I run out of episodes of podcasts that I love. And then I go looking for new podcasts. And so definitely, I found one.

Brenda Ganske: 31:37

Oh, I'm glad to hear it. And and it's exactly what you said, it's very important, I find that even historically, people rewrote history, or put their twist on history to better themselves as like I said, the only there's only two reasons to lie, you lie, because to make yourself look better, or to get ahead, right? It's or if you're covering up, and if you look at history, you see that everywhere. It's for lack of better terms. It's whitewashed. And I find that in nowadays that we're trying our best to look at all sides of history and and to own what happened. And I think that's vitally important as a society to grow forward.

Anne Marie Cannon: 32:19

I agree. I agree. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want to say about this history or about our about your podcast and what you're doing?

Brenda Ganske: 32:30

Well, actually, so since he listened to our with our From Russia with love, I'm having, as I mentioned, a new episode coming out tomorrow who put Bella in the witch Elm. And I thought he knew the story. Let me start researching. And I'm like, how did this turn into spies? I don't. What? So it's a very interesting tale. I

Anne Marie Cannon: 32:50

do know that one. Yeah, it was very

Brenda Ganske: 32:53

interesting. So that actually comes out tomorrow, you can find us actually on our YouTube channel, which is horrifying history. You also can actually find horrifying history everywhere. You could have your favorite podcast. But we also on our horrifying History Channel have a new show that we are just a limited series that we're putting out called history Coles notes. So in Canada, Coles notes are Cliff Notes in United States.

Anne Marie Cannon: 33:19

Ah,

Brenda Ganske: 33:21

so that's what we're doing. And the thing is, we're asked a lot of questions. I'm sure you are, too by your fans. Like we get a lot of emails and social media questions not just about spooky history, but about history itself basic history questions, so I said, Why, why not just answer them in a video. And so we do. They're both five to eight minutes long. And actually on Thursday, we're having our next episode come out, and it's about the Salem witch trials. Because people hear the story. They think all these women were burnt at the stake. And that's not necessarily what happened. And we also go into the working theories that are out there of why they happened. So that's a little different twist that you'll hear on our show that you don't necessarily hear on the regular shows. And if you guys want to learn more just go on our social media we're on horrifying history and Facebook aware horrifying underscore history on Instagram, and horrifying h i s t one on Twitter.

Anne Marie Cannon: 34:18

There you have it. Brenda Gan ski of horrifying history, and the black Donnelly's. To find out more about Brenda and horrifying history. Be sure to check out our episode notes. Thanks for joining us have a great week.